tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post114871333017006635..comments2023-08-04T17:34:49.094+05:30Comments on A New Praxis in a changed world: Thoughts on the Reservation Issue..Srinivasan Ramanihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13620263203764236450noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1149499189132331552006-06-05T14:49:00.000+05:302006-06-05T14:49:00.000+05:30To Prasav: You didnt know your caste/subcaste beca...To Prasav: <BR/><BR/>You didnt know your caste/subcaste because you had no use of it till then. Perhaps if you had checked your relative's advertisement on the classified section in any newspaper, you might have found out that you haven't been fully liberated from your "caste" identity thus far. <BR/><BR/>Yes, it is true that Brahmins from TN have migrated out of TN and this was a natural consequence after years of dominating the bureaucracy, the organs of governance and with mandated affirmative action in the favour of those who were outside such arenas. <BR/><BR/>As for the contention that the economy is *only* doing good, because of overseas remittances, I do not agree to that. Agreed that overseas remittances play a vital part in garnering valuable foreign exchange for investment, but the levels of governance, administration, economy that are not dependent merely on remittances are pretty high in the Southern States and this has invariably resulted due to wider participation of the masses in professional jobs. We have more engineers from deprived sections today in Tamil Nadu as also doctors which explains a better and vibrant service economy, previously which was restricted to a privileged few, who had *inherited* their statuses rather than earning it. <BR/><BR/>You have your grievances against the mainstream parties because *your* class/caste interest is not represented. Rs 2 a kg rice is seen as a populist move by those who can afford rice at 200 a kg and who can afford three square meals and a pizza a day. For those toilers who have suffered the brunt of neoliberal economic reforms and diminishing returns for their traditional labour, 2 Rs a kg rice, seems a logical move rather than populist move. <BR/><BR/>What I am trying to emphasize is that political parties represent their sectional interests as much as any representative contestable unit does. Merely terming the political class a corrupt, self-sustaining unit above and cut off from the broad society as such, in a country like India, is missing the point. <BR/><BR/>As regards the youth, I have only this to say. The youth of today is turning out to be myopic, selfish and not concerned about the "other side" as such. There are a few who are bucking the trend and doing great things by contributing to civil society in sociable ways, but the middle class youth of today in general lacks the idealism that is required of them.Srinivasan Ramanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13620263203764236450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1149002482358951922006-05-30T20:51:00.000+05:302006-05-30T20:51:00.000+05:30Agree until the caste discrimination goes off, it ...Agree until the caste discrimination goes off, it is difficult to achieve social equality.<BR/><BR/>But tell me one thing, caste based reservations indirectly keep educating every member of our society about their caste-subcaste etc. Until i finished my 10th i dint know about caste. After i got into college/reservation/ then i became aware of the caste. Can you answer me, by providing caste based reservation can you achieve this objective? If so, can you explain how?<BR/><BR/>you speak about TN, well, majority of Upper caste have migrated to other states and countries. And coming to the improvement in the TN people, its because most lower caste people are working as labourers in other countries like singapore,malaysia,dubai etc and sending money back. You might argue, but its a hard fact. I dont call it as a result of reservation, rather its more of a global opportunity process where those people preferred to become labourers in other countries. TN would have done much better without its stupid policies and monopolistic media and government. <BR/><BR/>to be specific, -1 and -1 is not zero. it is -2 (so two wrongs dont make it right). similarly discrimination and reverse discrimination are the same thing. So it does not equate to equality instead it moves towards further division of the society. Why only people from few caste to be helped. All the poor/discriminated indians need to be helped.<BR/><BR/>Of course politicians are there to take up every advantage of this "divide n rule" conditions. If you see the statements of BJP/DMK/Congress/JD etc, everyone is interested only about their vote bank. No one is interested in setting the right direction for our country. When the situation is like this, do you expect the right decisions would be taken by them?<BR/><BR/>The choice is with us. We have to analyse and set the right mindset amongst the youth. Otherwise this would be the dooms path for our country.Guruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10839809108592690400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1148993706385117622006-05-30T18:25:00.000+05:302006-05-30T18:25:00.000+05:30To Prasav,It will be difficult to negate all the s...To Prasav,<BR/><BR/>It will be difficult to negate all the suggestions that you have made, as well as the points that you have mentioned. At the same time, before plunging to jump into writing conclusions and use-case solutions in a management mode/scenario, one has to realize that society and social sciences are much more complex. <BR/><BR/>Wishing away caste by merely writing it off from application forms is not going to help at all. First the hierarchy has to be broken. Caste is a mental construct in certain ways (especially in urban India) and that mental mindset of one higher caste over lower etc, can only be broken by preferential or positive discrimination to the "lower" so that the "higher" no longer feels "higher". Till the time intercaste marriages are not frowned upon, caste mentality would remain and caste prejudice would continue and no matter how much we would want to wish it away, it can't be wished/removed off. As someone who is from the general category and has never been reserved, I have genuinely evolved from being a "higher caste" person to someone who doesn't believe at all in the caste system. <BR/><BR/>In South India, this has indeed happened. Due to State action, particularly in urban Tamil Nadu, caste as a construct of superiority has declined. It hasn't exactly happened in rural areas, but there caste is innately linked as I mentioned in the blog to the criterion of economic divide, so it is a different story altogether. <BR/><BR/>In sum, all affirmative actions, checks and balances such as creamy layer cuts, etc must be considered (as Prasav suggests), yet reservations on caste basis cannot be wished away and they are here to stay atleast for some more years, before the fading away of caste as a differentiating identity on basis of hierarchy. This is the crux of what I am trying to say. <BR/><BR/>As for politicians trying to divide and rule and blah blah...politicians are creations of the masses and Indian society is what which determines its kind of polity also.A divided and hierarchised Indian society is bound to produce politicians who are accountable to these divisions. Lets not be naive enough to think of the political community as a class apart from the society at large!.Srinivasan Ramanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13620263203764236450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1148839949692697942006-05-28T23:42:00.000+05:302006-05-28T23:42:00.000+05:30BTW i forgot to mention... all the caste, all the ...BTW i forgot to mention... all the caste, all the religion people will get benefitted. The government need not keep the useless list of castes in india.<BR/><BR/>Please be warned - the politicians are playing -"divide n rule". If you guys cannot understand this, i get doubt about your mental ability.Guruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10839809108592690400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1148839811832135132006-05-28T23:40:00.000+05:302006-05-28T23:40:00.000+05:30dude, with little bit of rational thinking you wil...dude, with little bit of rational thinking you will be able to understand whats right and whats wrong. If you read the past, you should learn from it. Not commit the same mistakes.<BR/><BR/>Look, I say reservation is required. But who needs the reservation? The answer does not lie in promoting caste system. The government is not doing any good by providing reservation for convent educated OBC's. <BR/><BR/>Please look at point 9 for the possible solutions.<BR/><BR/>1. What is the purpose of reservation?<BR/>Do our politicians understand this? The purpose is to lift the people who are living in very bad conditions to the normal standards of living. There is a need for reservation and not only reservation but also help is needed to some of these people. But not at IIT / IIM / Engineering level. The government has terribly failed to bring in standards to the government schools and colleges. So whats the solution? Bring down the elite institutions to those levels. Great strategy by the government!!<BR/><BR/>Again not to miss the answer to this point - To uplift the poeple who are UNDERPRIVILEGED. Ya thats what the politicians tell when they make reservation policies right<BR/><BR/>2. Is the current reservation system helping?<BR/>Frankly, the answer is a big NO. Why? This is because out of the 50 seats reserved, maybe 1 or 2 of the seats will go for the sector to which it has to help. So it is actually counter productive. The other seats are taken over by the undeserving (like rich lower caste people) candidates and thereby a massive misuse of the system can be seen. One more important thing to note is that these person who have come in using quota will not be able to sustain in a competitive world. More than 60% of the OBC's themselves feel they dont need quota in post-grad level.<BR/><BR/>3. Who is preventing the upliftment of dalits?<BR/>Its the rich category of obc's. Most of us are not opposing the reservations, but instead they are only insisting that these BENEFITS GO TO THE DESERVED CANDIDATES and ALSO THE KIND OF BENEFITS THAT GO TO THEM. Also they indulge in unnecessary upper-caste bashing to mislead everyone. This creates a unhealthy society and we have to live in this unhealthy society.<BR/><BR/>4. Is it really necessary for having reservations in IIM's etc?<BR/>NO. Why? It really doesnt help the poor dalit who is in need. It is only for the elite dalits/sc/obc to become more richer and richer. They and their offsprints will keep preventing the deserving candidates and thereby the privilges does not reach the needy.<BR/><BR/>5. Do they need reservations in job?<BR/>Yes in govt and No in pvt.<BR/>NO - Once the education has been provided, the person will get the job based on his own capacity. Once the dalit/obc/sc/st has been educated, he can get the job on his own merit. He will be able to compete provided we set up a competing environment. Otherwise it will be counter-productive for himself as well as the nation.<BR/>Yes - 90% of entry level jobs in government has to be given to these people. This will help them to stabilise in their life, give good education to their offsprings and thereby create a social equality. You dont need to make a person RICH. All that this reservation needs to do is to make a person afford the education to their children. The entire social structure will change. This reservation will help the dalits who have not been able to pursue higher education due to various reasons and bring them on par with others in the society.<BR/><BR/>6. Is reservations justified for Promotions in GOVT reserved jobs?<BR/>Yes - But this should be LIMITED TO 2 PROMOTIONS. After that he should make an effort to compete with the rest for further promotions. This will build a competitive nature and is good both for himself as well as the country.<BR/><BR/>7. Is reservation justified in private sector?<BR/>No - Private sectors are profit driven. There are lot of obc/st working in private sector even today. Moreover anything in private sector means we are majorly touching the urban population where reservation is not necessary. There should not be any language/religion/caste in private sector.<BR/><BR/>8. Who are the people insisting on increasing reservations and upper caste bashing?<BR/>Its the elite obcs/dalits etc who have had a good education etc. This is the greedy section in the obcs/dalits/st's who want to get richer and richer and they dont care what happens to other members of their own community. They are pointing the fingers at the upper-caste members to escape from the eyes of deserving candidates who are not getting benefitted. SO THIS GREEDY SECTION WILL NEVER AGREE TO WHAT WE SAY. THEY WOULD NEVER WANT THE UNDERPRIVILGED IN THEIR COMMUNITY TO IMPROVE SINCE THESE PPL ARE ENJOYING BENEFITS IN THEIR NAME.<BR/><BR/>9. Any viable solution? How can we know who needs reservation and who does not? Can we prevent misuse?<BR/>Yes. though misuse cannot be prevented 100%, it can be reduced drastically.<BR/>Following ideas to take india further into future.<BR/>a. Eradicate caste system. (should not have to fill in any caste column in any forms)<BR/>b. Free and standard education to be provided by govt. until 12th (PUC). In villages, any child going to school with regular attendance will get some stipend/clothes/food every week. Also increase the standard of government schools so that they are no less than the private schools. Why are we paying so much education cess for? Failing to do so is the failure of the government. And now 30% RESERVATIONS FOR THOSE WHO STUDIED IN GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS ONLY.<BR/>c. Create a paid team of "social-helpers" whose job is only to monitor, educate and make sure the benefits reach them.<BR/>d. Fully functional libraries providing text books for the students, both in rural and urban areas. Especially for the students studying in government schools and colleges.<BR/>e. Interest free long term educational loans (payable only to colleges/institutions) to candidates who want to pursue higher education. AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO STUDIED IN GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS ONLY. For others very low interest long term education loans can be provided.<BR/>f. 90% - 100% reservations to the entry level jobs in government for students who studied in government schools/colleges. 2 bonus promotions for these reserved category people.<BR/>g. Some benefits for pvt sector companies employing persons who have passed out studying in govt schools/colleges.<BR/><BR/>10. Looks like the "caste" is not mentioned in prev. solution?<BR/>Yes. The whole idea of the system is to create social equality and eradicate the devil called "caste"<BR/><BR/>11. Will eradicating "caste" bring social equality?<BR/>Yes. Along with generations, people will forget associating themselves with caste. With more people getting educated, will bring in a sense of confidence and new ideas. It will push them to explore new fields.<BR/><BR/>12. Will it benefit the opressed obc/sc/st?<BR/>Of course. Designed for that. Do you think increasing quotas in IIT/IIM will help them?<BR/><BR/>12. But what about IIT/IIM?<BR/>Who are we helping by increasing quotas in Engineering/medical/IIT/IIM? Are you guys helping the poor dalits by increasing quota at IIM?<BR/><BR/>13. But what about the oppressed obc's/sc/st. They will be backward.<BR/>Can give numerous examples The obc's/st/sc are not inferior. Just allow them to compete on fair ground, but from the school level. They cannot face the competition all of a sudden at IIT level having come thru reservations all along.<BR/><BR/>14. But still i want to vote for the politician of my caste....<BR/>Cool. Thats the great "Indian Mentality". Just answer these for yourself. Do you think only the person from your caste will do good for you? Has laloo helped all yadavs? Does he know every member of yadav community? As a CM is that is job? Do you think only your caste politician will bring in water only to your house in your area? Finally do you think only a politician from your caste can do anything good for you?<BR/><BR/>15. Im not bothered. It does not affect me in anyway. I want to concentrate only on making money.<BR/>Cool. You think so? Hope it is so!!<BR/><BR/>BOTTOM LINE - YOU CANNOT MAKE A COUNTRY WITH 100% POPULATION AS ENGINEERS AND DOCTORS. The government should bring in value to other occupations. Say for eg: A person who sweeps the road should not be paid less than an average clerk in the government. So their job is NOT inferior. BRING IN VALUE FOR EVERY JOB. DONT SEPARATE JOBS JUST LIKE THEY DID FOR CASTE IN THE PAST. PLS DO NOT REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES. HOPE WE LEARN FROM HISTORY.<BR/><BR/>Hope you have got some thoughts about this...Guruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10839809108592690400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1148760879970565052006-05-28T01:44:00.000+05:302006-05-28T01:44:00.000+05:30Good work dude..Good work dude..majesticpalmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12794657876157143302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381909.post-1148736172505160682006-05-27T18:52:00.000+05:302006-05-27T18:52:00.000+05:30This is probably one of the best articles I have r...This is probably one of the best articles I have read on this volatile issue. Great work!arvindhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05446225783704208363noreply@blogger.com